tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post3495547329466332550..comments2024-03-05T11:36:50.299-05:00Comments on Stand and Deliver: Children in public spacesRixahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07908864785513937876noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-19939035701591739762012-01-27T21:50:01.820-05:002012-01-27T21:50:01.820-05:00I know this is an old post but THANK YOU.
I'v...I know this is an old post but THANK YOU. <br />I've been parenting 'alone' since late summer as my husband is stationed up north and only comes home for a few days each month. I have two wild, healthy, large, bright, loud, and...generally 'unacceptable' boys. It's difficult training them to be in-hand, and even more difficult working through the criticisms which swirl around us. I WANT them to be able to engage 'well' in the public, but it's a journey and they learn it through experience and time.Deahttp://wholedei.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-475829560600302482010-06-14T00:41:30.831-04:002010-06-14T00:41:30.831-04:00I have been somewhat appalled at how little tolera...I have been somewhat appalled at how little tolerance our society has for children. Since I had my own, the frequent disapproving stares and under-the-breath mutterings have been apparent. You can bet that I do not enjoy it when my kids melt down in public. I probably enjoy it less than anyone, and I do my summary best to avoid it. But it happens. And when it does, I think we need to be as understanding as possible that this is a normal human experience. Children are people, too. They have a right to be in the world just as much as anyone. The only alternative is to spend the rest of our lives as parents shackled to our couches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-31545949963449899652010-06-11T22:45:17.585-04:002010-06-11T22:45:17.585-04:00Personally, I am more put off by annoying and obno...Personally, I am more put off by annoying and obnoxious teenagers in public than I am young children. That being said, I tolerate them because I was once an annoying and obnoxious teenager. We all grow out of it. Just as children grow out of tantrums. I used to feel a little embarrased when my son when get fussy in public, now I just do what I can, same as when we are at home. I like that he is a human being with emotions and likes and wants. He doesn't alwasy express them the way I would like him too, but neither do the little old ladies confused in the bank lines. Or the people in a hurry speeding in their SUV's. Or the rude checkout clerks at the supermarket...Savanahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03606602392712409846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-1586822231991274402010-06-09T11:26:28.424-04:002010-06-09T11:26:28.424-04:00What a timely and important topic.
I'm living...What a timely and important topic.<br /><br />I'm living in Tajikistan right now, soon to return to the states. One of my absolute favorite things here is that children are an accepted and valued part of everyday life.<br /><br />Teenage boys, slightly older children, grandmothers, taxi drivers - everyone I've met has good skills with and "tolerance for" children. <br /><br /><br />I will miss that so much. The U.S.'s intolerance for (and sometimes it honestly feels like hatred of) children can get really trying.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866775407018643884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-61591204768523424492010-06-08T16:34:25.418-04:002010-06-08T16:34:25.418-04:00I always find it hysterical when a parent says to ...I always find it hysterical when a parent says to a crying child "Stop crying right now". Can an adult stop crying on a dime? Then they often go on to say "Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about". Oh my. LOL. I've never understood that logic.<br />2 out of 3 of my children are very spirited. Unpredictable is precisely the way to describe their behaviour. Yes, there have been many times we've changed plans due to potential behaviour problems, but they still happen. The parent who says their child would 'never' have a tantrum in a public place either has a very short memory or engages in parenting strategies, such as bribery, to avoid tantrums. I do see some kids who never make a peep out in public, never move an inch away from where their parent places them, but they tend to have a lack of life in their eyes that I find more disturbing than a child acting like a child in a public place.TracyKMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07498896222222982320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-36615634942583799882010-06-08T16:26:19.859-04:002010-06-08T16:26:19.859-04:00I am not a parent but I do like kids a lot and am ...I am not a parent but I do like kids a lot and am training to be a pediatric RN. I have to say I tend to be more shocked by instances of bad parenting than of a child's bad behavior. <br /><br />But I wanted to add a perspective of neurological difference: If people have a visual clue that a child is neuro-atypical, for example a child who appears to have Down's Syndrome, (most of us) feel that it is morally wrong to chastise this child or their parent for disruptive or unusual behavior. On the other hand, if a child has typical physical characteristics but is particularly spirited or always has a very difficult time staying still, people are critical of them and their parents without regard for that child's neurological profile. <br /><br />Why not think of each child as having a unique cognitive experience, and tailor our communication with them to whatever appear to be their special needs? This is ideally what each parent does for their child, but we should all try to exercise the same empathetic imagination for all children. Of course, boundaries and respect are so important, but in order for the message to get across people need to speak to kids in a way that they can understand, and set realistic expectations.Emilynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-76452924179522321502010-06-08T15:58:48.289-04:002010-06-08T15:58:48.289-04:00Rixa - I think its awesome that both sweet kids ge...Rixa - I think its awesome that both sweet kids get to go to the museum and other cultural locations - and even have meltdowns there. <br />Here's my attempt to express my thoughts on the issue:<br />http://www.themarketgoblins.com/2010/06/whos-public-space.htmlJennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08518636652243948501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-43511060333755445802010-06-08T15:53:31.745-04:002010-06-08T15:53:31.745-04:00I will admit that I have joked with my husband abo...I will admit that I have joked with my husband about how there should be "child" and "child-free" sections in restaurants so that we have the option of being able to have time together without the screaming (from the kid and the parent) in the background. <br /><br />But my issue isn't really with the child at all. I understand completely that a child can easily get upset and that upset usually leads to crying or some other behavior until the parent figures out what is going on. My problem is with the parent who doesn't do anything to figure it out. <br /><br />I would have been impressed with Rixa's soothing of Dio in the museum and it wouldn't have bothered me in the least that he was having a tantrum because she handled it like a pro. And I think it's pretty cool that she is exposing her children to museums and such. That's how the children will learn how to behave appropriately. <br /><br />My guess is that those annoying people on their cell phones never had parents teach them appropriate public behavior... (joking..mostly)<br /><br />~JenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-65841651242527612922010-06-08T06:55:13.959-04:002010-06-08T06:55:13.959-04:00I have to say that I am someone who is easily dist...I have to say that I am someone who is easily disturbed by little annoyances (not just children, but annoying adults too). I tend to avoid public spaces at times when I know they are going to be crowded. It's a part of human nature and it can't be avoided. <br /><br />Before I get to the biggest problem I've found, a little background. Right now I am living in Japan. If you've never been to a hot spring here, let me explain about it. It's a public bath. You enter, get undressed, shower, and soak in a large hot tub (completely naked). There are separate rooms for men and women. The children are most often with the women.<br /><br />My problem is when I go this, and the children just stand there and stare at me. I'm blonde with green eyes and in every way 'over-weight'. I get stared at a lot being a rare foreigner. It's one thing when I'm fully clothed... I just want to go there an relax without being obviously stared at. We are all curious, and there is nothing wrong with a sideways look that can easily go unnoticed. I felt so uncomfortable that I had to leave...Gravynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-78243406955362705292010-06-08T02:27:19.885-04:002010-06-08T02:27:19.885-04:00Without first reading all the comments...I'm r...Without first reading all the comments...I'm reminded of Gordon Neufeld (Hold on to Your Kids) saying "we've lost respect for our children". Kids should be an integral part of their parents' lives - not fobbed off on others at every turn (and, no, I'm not referring to two parents working - rather to a non-working friend of mine who gets rid of her kids whenever she can). If kids aren't happy in restaurants, perhaps parents shouldn't go. If they have to be in restaurants, do what you can to make it a pleasant experience for *them* (within reason).<br /><br />As a society, we expect kids to be our "ride alongs". While sometimes this is necessary, it's not fair and not respectful to our children as independent, developing human beings.chananechamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09318757379854020714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-1651096495351355982010-06-08T01:38:48.814-04:002010-06-08T01:38:48.814-04:00I am not a parent, but I am growing increasingly u...I am not a parent, but I am growing increasingly uncomfortable with the way so many of my fellow non-parents seem to demand the exclusion of children from public spaces. (I <a href="http://featherlessbiped.blogspot.com/2010/05/ghettoization-of-childhood-rant.html" rel="nofollow">wrote about how it's happening in my area</a> a couple of weeks ago.) <br /><br />I hadn't drawn the connection to the demand for violence until you articulated it here, but I think that's right. I <i>had</i> noticed that in my area, some of the demands that parents rein in their children carried a thinly veiled implication that the parents could have had abortions, so since they didn't, they have no right to expect any other adult to be inconvenienced by their kids.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09446536368127720437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-72667403911870476452010-06-07T21:52:21.449-04:002010-06-07T21:52:21.449-04:00Hm. There is a balance. We must teach our children...Hm. There is a balance. We must teach our children respect and proper behavior by taking them in public. And we must also BE respectful of those who are sharing that public space. Our children should never be left to their own devices in a public space. We need to be watchful and mindful of them at all times. That is our job. Perfect behavior? Never. We could never expect such a thing. But we should constantly be teaching and comforting when necessary. I see nothing wrong with how Rixa's children were behaving at the museum. I have no doubt that had her son's tantrum been uncontrollable, she likely would have left. But she could soothe him. All was well. Another lesson learned. Another success. great post:)Katielin317https://www.blogger.com/profile/00420669042136819672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-77048696367578215152010-06-07T20:26:25.227-04:002010-06-07T20:26:25.227-04:00This seems particularly true on planes: it brings ...This seems particularly true on planes: it brings out the best and worst in people. I will get glares and complaints from some people from the moment I set foot in an airport whereas others will bend over backwards to be helpful.<br /><br />I stress out about my children's behavior on planes more than anywhere else because I've been in a plane with a screaming child - we all have. As a parent, though, it's one of the worst places to be. They are confined, tired, hungry, and bored. Worst. Combination. Ever. I'm always grateful for the white noise on planes.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15168215827985186993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-3852347509181512312010-06-07T15:47:58.110-04:002010-06-07T15:47:58.110-04:00Sarah Vine: I wasn't commenting specifically o...Sarah Vine: I wasn't commenting specifically on Rixa at all, as you may notice. I was talking about the debate in general as referenced in the post and my perception of said debate. But thanks for the rude reply.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-72510397709522366422010-06-07T13:16:16.117-04:002010-06-07T13:16:16.117-04:00For the record I'm fond of children, but I thi...For the record I'm fond of children, but I think some of you are fighting a straw man here. There's a complaint about children's behavior in public, and people instantly start complaining that sometimes kids have tantrums! True, but the majority of bad public behavior I've seen is not from tantrums (which ARE unavoidable, and why kids shouldn't be taken to spaces where quiet is expected. Noisy adults get thrown out of theaters faster than noisy kids), but from children running around restaurants like they're playgrounds while their parents enjoy drinks with their friends. Yes, we all get to use public space and yes, the tipsy loud party of adults at the other table are also annoying. However, the adults aren't endangering themselves or others. I can't count the number of times I've seen kids almost get stepped on or almost gotten their fingers crushed , or the number of people I've seen almost trip because their parents have said nothing while their kids played right in front of a door or knelt down on the floor (I have told kids to move and gotten glared at for it). Yes, kids don't have the same impulse control and don't always understand what is inconsiderate or dangerous, but that's what their parents are supposed to be for!Shannonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-84303292530483230732010-06-07T10:31:19.371-04:002010-06-07T10:31:19.371-04:00skepticalvegetable: OBVIOUSLY. Parenting is consta...skepticalvegetable: OBVIOUSLY. Parenting is constant. Didn't you see the pictures of Rixa (successfully) calming Dio's tantrum down?Sarah Vinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230747469806951003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-64655861086267915472010-06-07T10:28:29.309-04:002010-06-07T10:28:29.309-04:00What I find ironic is that people get upset when y...What I find ironic is that people get upset when your child misbehaves in public and they get upset/uncomfortable when you reprove them in public. When my husband and I tell my son "no" at church everyone gets really quite and stares. If we let him run free they give those annoyed side glances. It is a no win situation so I figured I should not try to please the people around me per say, but just try to teach my child to behave correctly and age appropriately.Mrs. Schaiblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06304387340263329501noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-67472522328412575972010-06-07T10:10:43.471-04:002010-06-07T10:10:43.471-04:00Isn't there a balance here? The discussion sho...Isn't there a balance here? The discussion shouldn't be to ban children or allow them to run a muck, should it? Kids should be in public spaces to learn consequences and become respectful members of society. That's where the parents come in. <br /><br />I was a very tantrum prone kid. When I started a tantrum in public my mom took me home (or out) immediately and consistently. She remained calm with me and simply said, 'this is not how to behave in public' or 'other people are trying to...fill in the blank.' Guess how many times she had to do that? Not many! <br /><br />I learned really quickly that if I wanted to be doing the activity, I had to act a certain way. It taught me respect for others that I maintain as an adult. For example, I don't listen to the radio on public transport, I use headphones. Similarly, kids should know that when they mess something up at a store, someone else has to clean it up, and to respect that person by not doing it.<br /><br />Sure, kids are human, but so is that dude on the metro spitting sunflower seeds. That doesn't mean its okay. Excusing all behavior is not what we do for anyone, children included.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-8776819510123636332010-06-07T09:59:09.038-04:002010-06-07T09:59:09.038-04:00I'm afraid I too might have fallen into the tr...I'm afraid I too might have fallen into the trap of thinking I had perfected the art of parenting if I'd only had my daughter - an obedient, thoughtful, well behaved girl that everyone compliments me on. My head would be huge, except I was humbled by the birth of my son! There is no such thing as perfect parenting, if you have succeeded well than be quietly thankful that you were blessed with cooperative children that have a need to please. That's why we're given them to train for 18 years - hopefully by that time we'll have guided their values and helped mold their characters. Some take a lot more molding than others! <br /><br />I've been told that my son's strong willed alfa male character means he's a handful now, but as an adult he'll be a leader in government, boss of a company....etc. *sigh* We'll see! In the meantime I pray and keep patience, and expose him to opportunities to learn to behave! BTW my kids LOVE museums and libraries... this handful of a boy is thirsty for knowledge. Mother to two, ages 4 and 6.Sarah Vinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17230747469806951003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-60304277617665134632010-06-07T02:49:50.231-04:002010-06-07T02:49:50.231-04:00I find it so very sad that so many societies are u...I find it so very sad that so many societies are unable to see the damage that this attitude of "children being seen and not heard" actually does. <br /><br />People who frequent blogs like Rixa's, who spend a lot of time and energy thinking about birthing, and mothering and how the current system is 'broken' somehow still seem to miss this as a basic tenet of social health.<br /><br />In our tribal pasts, children were accepted as evolving adults, and nurtured: Now, with out compartmentalised family units, we find it easy to be vastly intollerent of children, even when we have our own.<br /><br />In this area I say look to the more family orientated countries for inspiration - the Spains, Italys and Greeks of this world where children are accepted as children, even in public spaces, and each is cared for by the whole.<br /><br />Rixa, personally I say good on you for taking the kids to these places and giving them those experiences - they will stay with them for a longer time than the memory of any tantrums will stay with you!Nat Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08424799085246705560noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-44004032307674918922010-06-07T01:41:30.879-04:002010-06-07T01:41:30.879-04:00Well, I've yet to experience any kids under ag...Well, I've yet to experience any kids under age 5 who behave as perfectly as Lisa claims her children behave. At least her rude post initiated a useful reminder that children have every right to share public spaces too, and have the opportunity to learn how to participate in daily activities in society instead of being relegated to their homes and own backyards lest they offend some adult.Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-10030739982660294622010-06-06T23:29:42.836-04:002010-06-06T23:29:42.836-04:00Great discussion. BTW, Rixa, your kids are adorabl...Great discussion. BTW, Rixa, your kids are adorable and I think it is great you are exposing them to so many cool experiences. Will you adopt me? As with mothers, I think big-bad Society (I'm in the US) gives a lot of lip service about how much we care about kids, yet we cut public school funding, have little to no parental leave, thousands with no health insurance (hopefully this is slowly changing), market crappy food and junky toys to them, cut library funding, etc etc etc. [I'm sure this point has been made many times in the blog posts and comments that I'm neglecting to read. Sorry!] I think we like the idea of mothers and children more than the reality. We're jerks.rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16074085255595880664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-79964957550230643722010-06-06T22:13:50.151-04:002010-06-06T22:13:50.151-04:00In a society where children are merely inconvenien...In a society where children are merely inconveniences or annoyances, people are completely ignorant of that fact that little people need to be TRAINED to become bigger people. And how on earth do they learn to behave in public without being out in public???<br /><br />I must say, I'm beginning to lose patience with the amount of people who are so rude about children being... um... ANYWHERE. I love the quote about public spaces belonging to EVERYONE. <br /><br />It says a lot about our society today when so many people have either a disdain or a disregard for future generations. Selfishness...Rachel Keppnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17193834789450018423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-56676146257707348772010-06-06T22:11:31.911-04:002010-06-06T22:11:31.911-04:00this was an exceptionally good post! Of course tha...this was an exceptionally good post! Of course that could be because I have not only a 13 month old myself (who can throw a tantrum at the drop of a hat!) but a SN kid and a typical 9 yr old.<br /><br />the thing that just baffles me... I mean really just floors me... is that so many people look at children as a different species, instead of the first stage of the very species we are! WE ALL must go through this stage of life. and it baffles me that instead of it being a common thing for kids to be in common places, it's scrutinized. why should this even be an issue? unless there is danger for the child, children should be welcome in general public. can you imagine if you tried to ban elderly folk from a mall or a concert? or put a stop on having 30-40 yr olds in coffee shops?<br /><br />I'm just astounded at how quickly we forget that is a HUMAN responibility to teach other humans. Parents are the immediate care givers of course, but all human beings should by nature we ready to lend a hand or at the very least make a place for children in our every day world. This is for the good of humankind. to nurture, protect and nourish our young should be at the top of our list as priorities as human by nature alone. instead? we're worried about ourselves, our wild abandon and our "right" to do whatever "adult" thing we want at any time without any inconvenience to put a hamper on our fun.Hennyhttp://www.hennypenne.lafianzoo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-20642800.post-52992884782489964122010-06-06T21:40:24.543-04:002010-06-06T21:40:24.543-04:00Nice post and great comments. I think the biggest...Nice post and great comments. I think the biggest problem our society sees is a lack of respect for each other, including respect for children. They are little personalities, so don't just try to "control" them and shut them up. I like the comments about how it is everybody's space, so true, children should be in museums, of course. And people with disabilities should be able to grocery shop at their own space! Suck it up if you don't like loud and happy children or if you don't like to wait a second for someone who is a little slower! Usually, the one having the problem - who probably has his own unresolved issues from his childhood - is the one complaining...Back to the Old Worldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08425781712623766414noreply@blogger.com